The Chief Missioner of Ansar-ud-Deen Society of Nigeria, Sheikh Abdur-Rahman Ahmad, in this interview with ADEOLA BALOGUN and GBENRO ADEOYE (Punch Newspapers), says the case of Yunusa, the alleged kidnapper of Ese Oruru, is straightforward and if found guilty, should face the law of the land

With Ese Oruru’s case, a lot of people have blamed Islam, saying it encourages paedophilia. What do you think about this?

It is unfortunate and it is callous of those who are holding a religion of almost two billion people responsible for the action of an individual who lived most of his life in Bayelsa State, but of northern extraction. If this is the way the world is, there will be so many blames and a situation will be created for hate, lack of tolerance and perpetual hostility between people, religions and nations. The KKK (Ku Klux Klan) in the United States, uses cross sign as a symbol, but has anybody ever blamed its action on Christianity? Adolf Hitler (leader of the Nazi Germany) was a Christian, has anybody blamed Christianity for his actions? This is why this kind of reasoning is very unfortunate; it is intellectually bankrupt and it stands the fact on its head. It is sensationalism at its best. I do believe that it is a smokescreen; the real agenda is that it is a campaign of hate against a region and against a religion and it is not going to take us very far.

But some people will say that this is a religion that allows people to marry minors and that if that was not so, no one would have been able to hide under its cover.

Again, that is feeding fat on ignorance. Let us go back in history. What was the age of puberty in Europe until very recently? Even up until now, states in the US have different ages of maturity. You can insist that 18 years is the age of maturity, but in other climes, they say it is 16. What do you say about that? Then again, we should be very careful with the way we throw tantrums. Those who live in a glass house should not throw stones. Islam reveres Jesus Christ. In fact, a whole chapter of the Quran is dedicated to the mother of Jesus; it is called Surat Mariam. And it is Islam that came in strong defence of Mariam and cleared her of all the allegations that were levelled against her. What are you going to say about the mother of Jesus? At what age did she get pregnant and for who? Joseph the carpenter who was close to 90 years old? She was a minor, 14 or 15 years. What is the age of maturity in the bible? So we should be very careful before we throw tantrums. We should not be blinded by hate and we should not condescend to generalisations. Generalisations are essentially simplistic and they complicate issues, promote ignorance, block mutual understanding and societal harmony.

But when the incident broke, as the leader of a sizeable number of Muslims in the country, how would you comment on what the alleged abductor, Yunusa, did?

Yes, I will make my comments. Let us now go to the issues. I can tell you very authoritatively the Islamic rulings, as far as marriage in general, is concerned. Let us use that as the basis for determining the correctness or otherwise of the action of whoever it is; remove the unfortunate individual from the picture now. Let us look at the fundamentals. The first condition for a valid marriage in Islam is the consent of the lady to be married. Islam holds that you cannot marry a woman against her will. As much as Islam has given power to the parents, Islam has not compelled such power to marry a lady against her will. No! So the first condition for a valid marriage in Islam is that the lady must consent willingly.

Two, this consent must also be supported by her parents, especially her father. So you cannot marry a woman without the consent of her guardian, and in this case, her father or whoever is the accredited representative of the father, if the father is not there.

The third condition is what is called Maarh. It is not a dowry and it is not even a gift. It is what a woman demands from the man for being man enough. Although, this is negotiable between both of them, they must come to an agreement. It could be cash, kind, deferred or even graduated over time. This is instructive because Islam grants such to a woman who is going into marriage. And from the outset, Islam is saying that she is to be consulted.

Finally, there must be at least two witnesses; these are the minimal conditions of marriage that must be satisfied. Take this against what happened. Where does abduction or elopement come in? The lady cannot give herself in marriage. It will not make that marriage valid.

Is that irrespective of the age of the lady in question?

Yes, irrespective of her age. This is because marriage is not just a union between two people; it is also a union between two families. In fact, in situations where the parents are being unnecessarily difficult or don’t have valid reasons, maybe because they think the individual who wants to marry their daughter is not rich enough, there are so many processes involved before whoever is the community leader can overrule the objection of the parents in the interest of the lady. So we must not continue to feed on ignorance and hate. We require some minimal understanding. What is even the provision of Islam about marriage?

Also, there are so many individuals doing wrong things. As we speak, so many people are breaking laws. They are acting in manners that are inconsistent with their conviction, faith and the law of the land. Now, as a leader of an Islamic organisation, how many people will I have to speak up against? ‘You are driving against traffic and you call yourself a Muslim. You’re taking bribe, or doing this or that’. You know it is impossible.

So until we verify the claims independently, we take them as allegations which have not been proved. So I hold Yunusa innocent because I have not had opportunity to hear from him. But let me say that if what he was alleged to have done is true, then that would be inconsistent with Islam. Islam does not allow you, whether underage or otherwise, to elope or abduct a girl or anybody for that matter. That is not the essence of marriage.

Some people may see Yunusa as a soldier of Islam having taken a girl from Bayelsa State to the north.

Yunusa had been living in Bayelsa State for long; he is well known to the parents of this girl. He is reported to be the customer of the mother of this girl. So Yunusa is not a stranger to the family; and not a stranger to the girl. There must have been some form of relationship between all of them before it turned sour. So when he was patronising the mother, he was not a soldier of Islam? It is probable that there may be some things that he has done in the past to please the parents. The parents never claimed that they never knew him, so he is not somebody just coming out of the blues. But this is not justifying his actions, no, far from that. I’m just saying that we should read between the lines. Whatever happened to investigation? We just pick news on the table without doing any investigation.

The incident happened in August and was brought to the attention of the Emir of Kano, Muhammadu Sanusi II.

Do you think the reason he gave that he had written a letter and didn’t know his directive was not followed was tenable?

First and foremost, the Emir of Kano must have intervened or arbitrated to resolve the conflict. He did not act in the capacity of a judge and he did not constitute a court. According to the evidence on ground, the case was taken to him as the Emir. The case did not even happen in Kano city, it happened in a village. Then he contacted the district head to investigate. The district head contacted the village head and they gave reports to him. To authenticate the report, he referred it to another body. ‘Please investigate this and report back to me.’ And they reported back to him and he said ‘look, this girl is too young to be married, return her to her parents.’ It was said that the girl complained that her life would be in danger, but the Emir said ‘okay, the Assistant Inspector-General of the zone, please ensure that you return this girl to her parents and also ensure her safety. What else would he have done under the circumstances? I don’t know; I want people to tell me. So I see all the snide remarks, all the campaigns of calumny, all the wailing against the Emir of Kano as uncalled for and it is unfortunate. Those who have taken it upon themselves to launch sneer campaigns against others should know that one day, they would also be in positions of authority.

As an Islamic leader, what do you think should be Yunusa’s punishment if it is established that he had abducted Ese?

If it was abduction, I think the law of the land is sufficient in dealing with all cases of kidnap and abduction. It is not a religious matter.

You are not going to suggest a Sharia punishment?

No, wait! There have been cases of robbery. It is a daily thing and in robbery operations, there will be Muslims who could be Yoruba or northerners. There could be Christians who are south easterners or south southerners. Would you report that these robbers are representatives of their ethnic groups, zones, or religions? No! We just report them as robbers. What they have done is criminal. It does not matter what religion they profess. They have committed a criminal act and when you bring religion into it, you are sensationalising it and unwittingly building a defensive wall around it. That is what the press is doing. You are giving them protection and it drawing them into a bigger and larger conflict. Yunusa, according to media reports, is a commercial tricycle rider. He hails from Kano and was living in Bayelsa State. That paints a picture of someone who had lived in the state over a period of time and interacted with the community.

I’m sure that Igbo people come to Yorubaland and get themselves involved in crime. Hausa people go to Igboland and get involved in crime. Will it be reasonable, fair, or just to regard these criminals as representatives of their ethnic groups or religions? Will it be right for anybody to say that they have been sent on a mission by either their ethnic or religious groups? Nobody does this but then when it comes to a case that people have deeper interests in and want to sensationalise, they begin to look at the ethnic background. If that would not create enough sensation, they begin to look at religion. So they look at the prominent person (around the issue) and draw him in. People even, at one point, alleged that the girl was being held in the palace of the Emir of Kano. This is something that is very far from the truth.

What about if Yunusa has had carnal knowledge of the minor, what punishment is stated in the Sharia law for the offence?

If the case of rape is proved against him, for instance, then let the law take its course. The most unfortunate thing is that all of these stories have been a one sided campaign. We have not heard from the girl or from Yunusa and we are already passing judgements. How fair is that? By any standard of justice, they are innocent. As far as I’m concerned, Yunusa is innocent until it is proved that he has committed a crime. I will not condemn him merely on the strength of allegations until he is properly tried. But let me say here that I am not defending the person of Yunusa. No, very far from it. And I will never defend whatever is wrong and inhuman and cruel and unjust.

But supposing it is proved that Yunusa had an illegal marriage based on Islamic law and other standards, what should happen?

The law of the land can take care of this. We do not need a national conference to determine that, which is why we have the courts. But it is also dangerous to try and convict him in the media. If we perceive infractions, we can sensitise the people so that they will bring accused persons to justice; that is all. We do not have the right to try people and convict them in the media.

The parents of the girl have said that Yunusa has forced their daughter to convert to Islam. Why does it seem that Muslims like to impose their religion on others?

Look, let us use our heads and not our hearts. Religion is a matter of the heart or a matter of conviction. So you cannot impose it on anybody. You cannot impose conviction on me. It is stupid at this age and time to say you have forced somebody to convert to Islam. You can’t force anybody to convert to Islam and of course, Islam has been very categorical on that. Let there be no compulsion in religion because faith is not compatible with compulsion.

So is it that some Muslims don’t understand this part of the Quran with the way they are intolerant of people of other faiths or even threaten relatives who convert to other religions? In some cases, people have been killed by family members for converting from Islam.

That is a totally different issue, which is different from compelling someone to convert to your religion. Intolerance is bad, I can tell you that. But let us admit it, religion is a heritage. I’m sure it will not please you as a Christian if your first child comes to you and says he is now a Buddhist. Even if you are not going to be violent or discriminatory against that child, you are not going to be happy. But the extent of the reaction will vary from individual to individual. There are those who will cautiously react and there are those who will overreact. It is in all religions; it is not just limited to Islam, it happens in Christianity too. I’ve witnessed it. A young lady converted to Islam and he was rejected by her parents. If you have not experienced it, then don’t blame anybody. We can appeal that people must react moderately. And this kind of intolerance again is different from not wanting to recognise the right of others to defer from you. If you have the right to keep your moustache and shave off your beard, what denies me the right to shave off my moustache and keep my beard? What is the problem about that? Why must you be intolerant? If I’m putting on a cap, it is not because my brain is leaking. Why must you deny me opportunities or look down upon me because I am putting on a cap? This is the kind of intolerance that I’m talking about. Look, no matter what you do, this is a plural world. For as long as the world remains, there will be Muslims and there will be Christians. Muslims cannot convert everyone to Islam and Christians cannot convert everyone to Christianity. Even everyone cannot become born-again. Everybody cannot join the Pentecostal bandwagon.

Catholics will remain Catholics. And once in a while, you find people crisscrossing; there is nothing we can do about it. But this is not the issue. The issue is that there are people who feed on hate and blow issues beyond proportions. They play religious and ethnic cards. The most unfortunate thing is that nothing divides the elite. President Muhammadu Buhari was at the Redeemed Camp and he joined them for the service of songs. When Jim Nwobodo (former Governor of Anambra State) was wedding, Abubakar Rimi (former Kano State Governor) went to church. They were friends. The late Ooni of Ife (Okunade Sijuwade) and the late Emir of Kano (Alhaji Ado Bayero) were very close friends. They were the closest of traditional rulers in their time.

We should not help those who want to propagate hate, divide the people and push another agenda. People are being abducted every day; people are being ritually murdered every day, Muslims, Christians, whatever.

But some people have said that a lot of similar issues have been going on before now but that Islamic clerics have never spoken against them until now, which is because of the pressure generated by Ese’s case. For instance, we understand that in Kano, it is even announced on radio that parents of minors that have been converted to Islam should accept their fate…

(I will not comment on that) unless people can bring proofs and as journalists, your profession demands that you hold facts to be sacred. Let these cases be proved. It is not enough for people to twist things and for the rest to follow in the bandwagon. It is wrong and quite unfortunate. We are not going to go far in this country if for every wrong, we blame religion. A pastor murdered his pregnant wife because he wanted to use the foetus, nobody condemned Christianity. It is in the news. They hold the pastor responsible for the evil that he has committed. And this happens every day. A pastor may defraud members of his congregation, nobody will condemn Christianity. We accept that Christianity has not taught them to do that. Why must we sensationalise? We should hold individuals who committed evil acts responsible for what they have done, and this is what we must do, but to hold religions responsible for the misdemeanor of individuals will be the height of wickedness. It is satanic, it is ignorance, and it will not promote peace, harmony and cooperation. And of course, it is against the ethics of the noble profession of journalism.

What age does Islam then specify that girls can be married off, just to be clear on that?

Islam has not specified any particular age. What Islam is concerned with is maturity. But it is up to each community at different points in time to operationalise. Look, if you are in the US, you will see 14-year-old girls getting pregnant and having babies. In fact, in the American community, incest is not so much of a crime. I’ve once seen somebody on TV saying ‘I’m this lady’s father and her baby’s grandfather.’ So is it not the height of hypocrisy that you see nothing wrong with bestiality and homosexuality, and even are celebrating and promoting it? So to answer your question, the operational age of maturity is determined from time to time by each society at different times in history. In Europe before now, what was the age of maturity? The kings of England, at what age did they get married and to who and at what age? We should be very careful. When we just make generalisations, it exposes the relative ignorance of those who are talking and it gives them away as agents of hate.

There is a wave of kidnapping cases now and people are worried. With the recent abduction of schoolgirls in Lagos, people wonder if another Chibok experience is coming.

There are worst things happening every day. Go to the police stations to get statistics of ritual murders, rape and kidnap cases, but because we cannot make sensations out of them, they do not attract our attention. Go to the motor parks, and places like Ajegunle, Mushin, or even everywhere, check the statistics of sexual violence, you will see that it is very alarming. Abduction in any form, be it of old women, young girls, or whoever is evil and criminal and it must be condemned. But the way to stop this evil act is not by pointing fingers at a religion or a region; that will only compound it and help create safe havens for criminals. Let us disrobe criminals. Don’t let us dress them in religious robes because they are not religious. They are criminals; thieves are thieves, murderers are murderers, kidnappers are kidnappers.

The problem some people have with Islam is that perpetrators of some criminal acts have the tendency to latch on to the religion and the Quran. For instance, it is said that the Quran promises 77 virgins and Aljanah for Muslims who kill infidels.

To you, as someone who has education and exposed, does it make sense?

To you, as a Christian who has an understanding of the Supreme Being, Allah, God, will he require an act of wickedness from you before he showers mercy and blessings upon you? Is it not absurd logic? You see, recently, and I do not hold Christianity responsible, a lot of Boko Haram members, who were captured, were said to be Christians. Those of them who are not Christians, the media reported that they did not even find Qurans with them. What they found were sex enhancing drugs. This is an age of identity theft in all forms and at the most sophisticated level. If they could not do it at a sophisticated level, they would do it at the crude level. Those who are blowing themselves up cannot be God-fearing. When they go to a market to blow up people, there are Christians, Muslims, children, old people, and young people and so on, what is their offence? How can a religion order this? If a religion would order this, would it not protect itself? People go into the mosque while prayers are going on and they detonate bombs. The media have been silent on that. If they were churches, they would have cried out that they are blowing up churches. The truth is that they are blowing up churches, but they are blowing up mosques too. They are killing more Muslim scholars than anyone else. And Boko Haram operates in an area dominated by Muslims, so the majority of those who suffer are Muslims. Terrorism is a war against all of us. Is Buhari an infidel? Was his convoy not attacked in Kaduna?

The same thing that the Boko Haram is doing in Nigeria is the same thing Lord Resistance Army is doing in Uganda; it is what the Anti-Balaka movement is doing in Central African Republic. Any religion can be hijacked, so why are we not talking about Christian terrorism when we talk about the LRA or the Anti-Balaka movement?

They commit great heinous crimes. I’m saying we have a problem, let us use our heads, clear our conscience, scan our heads and remove the virus of hate. Unfortunately, there is no way you can isolate the Muslims in this country and there is no way you can isolate the Christians in this country. Muslims and Christians are everywhere. Nobody is going away for anybody, so we better accept the reality.

But can we honestly say that religious leaders are doing enough to curb people who try to perpetrate evil in the name of religion?

Let us be fair to religious leaders. What do you expect religious leaders to do precisely? Their greatest power is to persuade people, to preach. You are preaching to satanic people, majority of who go to churches and mosques on days they want to show off. What could the clerics have done? Will they arrest them? You know in this country, you do not even have the courage to report criminals to security agencies. What do you want religious leaders to do? Let me tell you and let me admit, there are religious leaders who have lived below the expectations of their calling. We know them. Some of them have been involved in corruption, gun running, arms dealings, contract scams, and so on. Nigerians know them. They are the ones who have been making the most noise about nothing. They are the ones that will cry wolf and are bent on dividing this country along religious lines. We have not always been like this. We all went to school. We had classmates, who were Christians and Muslims but we never bothered. We practised our religion, they practised theirs. We never dealt with them on the basis of their religious convictions. So we need to get it right.