Date: 2015-07-12

The chairman, Kwara State chapter of the All Progressives Congress (APC), Alhaji Isola Balogun-Fulani, in this interview with Biola Azeez,  speaks on the crisis in the National Assembly, including the political drama that led to the emergence of the Senate President, Dr. Bukola Saraki, among other issues.

How do you react to the vow by the Lagos State chapter of the APC to get both the Speaker, House of Reps and the Senate President removed?

What the Lagos APC said is beyond their power. No single person is the owner of the party. The APC is an embodiment of different types of people and leaders. We have many leaders in the party. So, it’s not solely owned by the Lagos chapter. It’s owned by the whole of Nigeria. What happened at the National Assembly is in accordance with the constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. So, for anybody to just sit anywhere to say that they are going to remove somebody is just a mere threat that cannot be achieved at all.

And when you say National Assembly, it’s an independent body and that’s why today, all of us, the chairmen of APC in the whole federation have passed a vote of confidence on our president for saying that he was not going to interfere in the affairs of the National Assembly and that whoever they brought forward as their leader is acceptable to him and that he can work with anybody.

So, for them to have said that they are Lagos chapter of the party that would say another thing, we know, it’s some people that are pushing them to act the way they are doing and not really the Lagos chapter. We know what’s happening. That’s their kind of politicking and it cannot work in Nigeria. This is not a sectional political party. This is APC, a national political party. It’s different from what they used to have there in Lagos or the South West.

 Some have described the ongoing crisis in the National Assembly as supremacy battle, with no one ready to shift ground, how do you see it?

 I don’t know what you mean by ‘shift ground’. I said what happened in the National Assembly is accordance with the constitution of Nigeria. Are we going to rewrite the constitution? No. More so, when we held our NEC meeting the other time, if you listened to what the president said, he said every one should bury their personal aspiration and interest and work together to forge ahead.

So, with what he said, to us, state chairmen of APC in the whole federation, we believe that the matter has been resolved. And that’s why we took it upon ourselves to visit both the Speaker of the House of Representatives, Yakubu Dogara and the Senate President, Dr. Bukola Saraki, to congratulate them formally.

And again, we went to the president to do same thing, to congratulate him formally. And if you could recollect during our meeting in Abuja, we the state chairmen, with the national chairman, we said that we agreed with the supremacy of the party, but that does not mean impunity.

We said there must be what we call fairness, justice and fair play. And that it must be in accordance with the constitution, that is, if positions are going to be shared, they should be shared according to the constitution using federal character. You cannot shortchange any section of the country. We have six geopolitical zones. Then to zone all the positions to only one zone is not acceptable and we have stated it clearly. And that’s exactly what the National Assembly leadership are saying. They believe in party supremacy but it’s not a licence to impunity.

Some people hold the view that the ongoing crisis was informed by the perception that the APC did not prepare for victory at the polls?

 We prepared for victory. We know we were going to win the election. It’s just that some people had certain interest. They wanted their people to have one thing or the other. They are the people triggering this problem. Having been a member of the National Assembly and House of Assembly for two or three times myself, nobody interfered. And when you say party supremacy, if you want party supremacy it’s not only National Working Committee that can do the supremacy of the party.  It’s all-encompassing. That is, if you want to take any decision, and you want that decision to carry the day, what you do is that after the National Working Committe must have taken decision, that decision will be passed to the NEC for ratification. After it has been ratified, the NEC will now send it to the BOT of the party and the caucus. When these four bodies have agreed on the position of the party, then you can say the party has supremacy.But all these were not done.

Sir, don’t you think this crisis is happening to the detriment of Nigerians who voted for change?

Thank you. It’s good for us to have this teething problem now. And it must happen. With this teething problem, we know where we go from there. After it, we have put our house in order and everything has started to move. That’s why you have all that’s happening now. All the states are going to be bailed out of their financial predicament. The president has directed that money should be given to them so that people can enjoy. We in APC are really prepared. The PDP would not like us to succeed for them to say all sort of things. They know we are up to the task. In a few days time, people will see state governments roll out their plans. Just to remind you, former President Jonathan did not appoint ministers for about six weeks when he came into power. We are in our sixth week. What’s the apprehension? We are not slow, but meticulous. We want good things for Nigeria. We don’t want to fall into the traps set by the PDP. We know that they have landmines all the way. That’s why we are being careful.

 Don’t you think the crisis can lead to a fragmentation of the APC as being speculated by some political watchers?

APC will not break. We are coming out stronger. When something is happening and you don’t really know why, as many leaders of the party too do not really know. We just read on pages of newspapers. And that’s one thing with our party. And we have talked to ourselves that until proper thing is done you should not leak it to the public. Would you believe that when the principal officers were zoned by the party, the letter had not got to even the president of the Senate or Speaker of the House of Representatives before we started seeing it on the pages of newspapers.

How can you then expect such a thing to fly? So, it means some people are there within who don’t want this thing to fly. That’s why it was made available to the press and we know that some of our leaders knew it’s not possible before it was leaked to the press. And as human beings and as Nigerians, we must believe that it cannot happen for you to have the Senate president in one zone and you said you are bringing in deputy majority leader of the Senate from that same zone. Then you have the Speaker from the North East and you are taking the majority leader of the senate again to that zone. It means you have forgotten about the South South, South East, North Central and North West. So, we as a party and with what the president said that he believes in rule of law, believe in fair play and justice.

As a party man, how best do you think this issue can be resolved?

As far as we are concerned, we, the party chairmen, believe it has been resolved and the matter is over. When you kill a snake, you won’t say that the snake will not wriggle. They know it can’t be reversed.

A social commentator recently said that President Buhari cannot fight corruption with Senator Saraki as the Senate president, how do you react to that?

I will tell you that that it is his own personal thinking. In the history of Nigeria, the social commentator you are talking about has never held any position. He is a man that just sits in his house and conjures anything. He is never in public domain; he has never served anywhere.

For we that know Saraki for what he is, we know he can fight corruption with what he has done in Kwara State. He has developed this state from a civil service state to an industrial state. Everyone is enjoying that now. Every Nigerian believes he is a man that can be saddled with the responsibility.

He exposed the matter of fuel subsidy and you said he cannot fight corruption. Had it been he cannot fight corruption, he would never have exposed what is called subsidy. You know that’s where you have many cartels. Because of what he had exposed, we were able to have SURE-P, where government kept the money it paid for subsidy to other useful areas in Nigeria. Kudos to him. He does not know the man called Bukola Saraki. He is a man that can fight corruption to a standstill.

How prepared is APC to sustain power beyond 2019, more so, with PDP’s threat to take over power in 2019?

What the PDP people are doing is very laughable. They know they are nowhere. People are troopping from PDP to APC. Go to Bayelsa today, you will see the number of people in the House of Assembly, member of House of Representatives and notable people in the state that are now in APC, just because they know that PDP is a sinking ship and people don’t want to sink with them. So, whatever Olisah Metuh is saying is just like somebody that is drowning. He must say something before he’s totally submerged in water. He knows APC has taken over and that PDP cannot come back again for now.

Saraki and North Central politics, how do you describe it?

Saraki is not only synonymous with Kwara politics. Saraki single-handedly nurtured APC for North Central till when we won the election. He contributed financially and morally to all that happened within the zone. And he also contributed to bringing APC to limelight as North Central was in PDP. Quote me. All the party chairmen knew that. He also extended his largesse to other zones of the federation. And that’s why when he was nominated as President of the Senate nobody contested against the move. That’s why he was nominated and elected unopposed. He’s a liberal person and he allows everyone to use his or her sense to operate. 

Saraki’s emergence as the Senate President, no doubt, has caused some ripples, as some of his critics see him as overambitious, while many also think the issue of BOT of the party may go same way, how do you react to this?

 You want me to open up and I will at this point. Saraki is not overambitious. We the APC chairmen from the North Central zone started it all. After we won our elections, then we took it upon ourselves that we must ask for what we think is our own benefit, out of the goodies of electoral victory.

Seven chairmen from our zone met and wrote a letter to the national secretariat and other stakeholders, that we wanted the Senate president to be zoned to our zone because we have performed creditably. We wanted them to give us that one to compensate us for what we have done by turning North Central PDP states to APC states. And I’m telling you categorically that the National Working Committee of the party zoned the position of the Senate president to the North Central.

When we did that, we were not doing it because we wanted Saraki to be the Senate president. What we wanted  was, let the position be zoned to the North Central so that whoever was high-ranking APC senator could vie for that post. And we have three high-ranking senators from the zone, they are George Akume, Abdullahi Adamu and Bukola Saraki.

When this thing was zoned, they said it would be taken to APC caucus for ratification. There, some stakeholders said the issue was sensitive and they should appoint seven committees to look at the zoning before coming out with their final decision. We were on that when President Buhari made a statement that as far as he was concerned, no part of Nigeria that produced the Senate president or speaker that he could not work with.

And he said that they should allow people from any of the zones where the position was zoned to pick their own best person. We were waiting to hear what would be the outcome of the zoning, but nothing was happening. We only heard that zoning could not fly but let the best candidate emerge. With that, how can anyone then say somebody is overambitious? So, everyone started going around to garner support from people. They all went to get support from their people, including Lawan.

 By the time they were doing this, they said there would be a retreat for them. It was in that retreat that everyone in the Senate aligned with their candidates. So, what’s the ambition there? After the alignment, another thing came out. They said APC’s hierarchy would not interfere in whoever emerge just like what President Buhari said. When Akume decided that he was going to become the deputy of Ahmed Lawan, we at the zone were very angry with him and we stood up that that was not our bargain.What we bargained for was the Senate president.

 We now had to re-emphasise that since Akume was out of the race, on his own, we from the North Central were supporting Bukola Saraki, who was the sole candidate from the zone. Where is the overambition?

It is we that wanted him because we know he can lead us. So, we were at that. After they found out that Saraki was gathering momentum to win, they started another abracadabra that they should come for a meeting. After calling them for a meeting, they were not told what would  be the agenda of that meeting. And when you call somebody for a meeting, the agenda or reason for it must be known.

 When they got there, they said they had been called to choose among them and in that case they had to vote. Vote? The candidates then requested that the voting should be by secret ballot otherwise they won’t participate. But because some people were there to teleguide what would happen, they said it was the decision of the party; instead of saying it was the decision of some people to choose Lawan.

 So we that love the party didn’t agree to that. You can’t be double-talking. That’s how the problem started. You said you won’t interfere. The president also said that. Then you came with the issue of primary. Primary for what? They were on that, then the president wrote to the National Assembly that the National Assembly should be convened on June 9. On the day, somebody from somewhere said there would be a meeting at the International Conference Centre, Abuja. Who is that ‘who’?

Were we to obey the president or to obey somebody from nowhere calling for a meeting? the president had already written to the clerk of the Senate and should the clerk obey the president or somebody outside who is not the president? It’s a common knowledge that the president must be obeyed. He is the president and he had not said otherwise, or written another letter to defer it. If the clerk of the National Assembly had not done what he did that day, he would have been removed. That means he’s not loyal to the power that be.

They were on their own. We don’t know why they did what they did. Till today, we don’t know who called that meeting. Because we confronted the chairman of our party, Chief [John] Odigie-Oyegun to know who called the meeting. He said he was woken up because of the problem at 4:00 am by somebody’s phone call that there would be a meeting at the ICC with the senators when they were to convene by 10 am same day.

He told the person it won’t work while the person said they would take care of the National Assembly. He said he asked the person where he’s from and the person said from the president. Then we blamed him that when the person said he’s from the president, why didn’t he find out from the president to know who actually called the meeting. That’s why the meeting flopped because the directive did not come from the president.  It’s just from one clique who wanted to divert the attention of the senators to the ICC, so that they could have their way.

With God on our side, they could not get some of the senators as some senators went to the Senate chambers. You know what the national chairman said? He said it’s the greatest disgrace of his life. He said he was sitting down at the ICC when the announcement of  emergence of Bukola Saraki as the Senate president was made on the TV.

Then there was no longer any meeting. That’s the work of Almighty God. The post had been zoned to North Central and it eventually came to past. Why are we quarrelling with the will of Almighty God? Somebody wants to play God and in this party nobody can play God. No single individual can claim to be the owner of the party. It’s a collective responsibility. And I can assure you that the APC will perform creditably to the admiration of Nigerians. People, government workers  will be happy soon because of the release of bailout funds to governors. The nation’s economy will pick up.

Now on the BOT, you know I told you that justice and fair play must come to play. The speculation of crisis over election of BOT chairman is just a speculation. As far as the BOT matter is concerned, we have not discussed it. People are just insinuating that it would either be Akande, Atiku or somebody else. No date has been fixed for BOT meeting or to elect BOT chairman. It’s just at the last NEC meeting that we approved the names of BOT members.