The re-emergence of insurgency in the country which has led to the death of thousands of people has become a source of concern to many Nigerians. Senator representing Bauchi South at the National Assembly, Senator Ali Wakili, is one of the concerned Nigerians who is of the view that insurgency should be tackled by all stakeholders in the country. In a chat with Journalists in Bauchi, including PATIENCE OGBODO-IWUAGWU, Wakili speaks on how to end insurgency in the country, among other issues. Excerpts...

There was an allegation of a clash between President Buhari and Senator Bukola Saraki over the refusal of the Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Finance, Mrs. Anastacia Nwaobia, to honour a meeting with the Senate. How true is this?

I am getting sick and tired of how some people are trying to destabilize this Nation through false propaganda by creating bad blood between the National Assembly and the President of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. As a senator of the 8th assembly, as one of those that supported Senator Saraki, I know for sure that neither I nor Saraki nor any supporter of Saraki has on his table the idea of fighting with the Presidency. The powers of the Presidency, that of the Senate and that of the Judiciary are spelt out in section 4, 5, and 6 of the constitution; they are very explicit. Also on issues of oversight function, you will discover that the National Assembly has oversight functions on government activities that will not warrant that there is going to be a clash in the National Assembly and the Presidency, especially under President Muhammadu Buhari. We are tired because our names are being dragged in the mud. Our constituents are wondering and inundating us with questions that why are you quarreling with Mr. President? We are taking toll of our time to explain to them that there is no quarrel between the Senate and Mr. President. Mr. President himself has accepted the Presidency of Bukola Saraki, because he has transmitted letters of congratulation to Senator Bukola Saraki as Senate President and also about two letters to the National Assembly. So, the issue that Mr. President did not recognise Bukola Saraki is not true. Bukola Saraki is a man that has been brought up properly, everyone knows his family's pedigree. Bukola Saraki all Knows the powers of the President and he recognizes Buhari and the constitution of Nigeria and is not in any way ready to have any clash with Mr. President not to talk of the fact that, because one permanent secretary, Mrs. Nwaobia, did not attend to a letter calling on her and CBN governor to attend a meeting with the Senate leadership, will amount to us having a quarrel with the Presidency. It has been very normal from the First Republic to the 7th Assembly - there have been occasions when the National Assembly called on government functionaries to come; sometimes out of one reason or another, they don't have the time to attend.

You will recall that former Minister of Petroleum, Diezani, had to go to court for her refusal to answer the call of the National Assembly. If, for one reason or another, Mrs Nwaobia, did not answer the call of Senate President or the National Assembly Leadership, that does not amount to a declaration of war between the Presidency and the Senate. As an ardent supporter of Saraki, neither him nor I nor other members are quarrelling with the Presidency, that is the figment of the imagination of those that want to destabilise Nigeria, by sending false propaganda, by heating the polity. No member of the Senate, not even the Senate President, is ready to quarrel with the presidency over trivialities. Let those of them that are dishing out propaganda have the fear of God. If you have personal scores to settle with Bukola Saraki, take him up as Bukola Saraki, don't take it on all of us in the Senate. There is no quarrel personally between Bukola Saraki and President Buhari. There are no institutional clashes between the Senate and the President. Some of these garbage being sent out through some sections of the media for reasons best known to them should be stopped, they are heating the polity and I want to assure you that as a serving Senator of the 8th Assembly, the Presidency has not transmitted any letter that is requiring the action of the Senate that we have not sat down to look at it. Before Saraki left for lesser Hajj, I was in his office, we were there to receive governor of the CBN and we had briefing with him. So if the governor of the CBN from the executive arm will attend to Senate calling, I don't think there will be any other civil servant or technocrat that will not want to attend. Those issues are not things that should be brought to the front burner, but people should be able to help us do away with the scourge of the insurgency; let's talk on how to deal with this insurgency that has regurgitated itself. Innocent lives are being killed in the name of the devil, not religion. These are our problems not these trivialities. I am appealing to those heating up the polity to stop henceforth, because some of them are dragging our name to the mud. If there is any quarrel, it is not known to us, we are not involved and we will not partake. We swore by the constitution, and we are going to abide by the constitution.

What is the implication of all this in the Senate and the country?

In terms of what? We don't have any problem, we have a Senate President, Deputy Senate President, Majority and Deputy Majority leaders and Chief Whip. I am sure, based on Senate standing orders, by the time the Senate resumes from recess, maybe the senate leadership would have constituted committees because the powers to constitute these committees from our standing rules is vested on the Senate leadership. You have been seeing the Senate President working. You saw him in Saudi Arabia condemning the visa policy of Saudi Arabia whereby they are discriminating against Nigerians, making things hard for us. You saw him appeal to CBN to liaise with custom service to ensure that the N30b shortchanged the import waivers are retrieved from those shortchanging them. Things are working, it is only those few who are trying to destabilize the polity that are sending speculative things through the social media.

There were reports that President Buhari refused to meet with the Senate President, how true is this?

That is very speculative. There has never been a situation where Senator Bukola Saraki applied to see the President and he has refused to see him. You all saw them at the International Conference Centre during the last National Working Committee of the APC. You saw him when he received Mr. President, and I have confirmed to you that the President has written letters addressed to him as Senate President. If he doesn't recognise him, will he write letters to him?

You talked about insurgency, in your own view, how do you think insurgency can be tackled?

Issues of this insurgency - the President himself has told you it is very dimensional, that is why you saw him going to Niger, Chad. He is going to visit Cameroun in the next 2 weeks. You can see he is on his way to the U.S. Part of what he is going to discuss is the issue of insurgency. You saw him in the U.K talking about insurgency and you have seen how development partners and developed countries are contributing on how to deal with this insurgency. There is nowhere in the world where insurgency is defeated by war. You have to sit down and identify those behind the insurgence, negotiate with them, and know how to disarm them. You are dealing with a ragtag army not a conventional army. If you check on the social media, you would have seen how a man dressed as a woman, went to a market in pursuance of the Boko Haram agenda. Providence was on the people's side; he was arrested. When they searched him they discovered he was a man. Look at what happened in Jos. As citizens, we have our part to play. If we don't expose these insurgents, they are humans like us, they are our sons and daughters. We know them, we can trace them.

Are you hopeful that before the Senate reconvenes, all issues in both chambers will be resolved?

I have said it before, there is no crisis in the National Assembly. These are things being orchestrated by outsiders not from the National Assembly. All the issues of propaganda are not from the National Assembly, they are coming from outsiders that have interest or would have gotten their interest protected and their interest will not served by Speaker Dogara or Saraki's Presidency. Let me tell you, former governor of Nassarawa state, Abdullahi Adamu, now a Senator, was among those rooting for Ahmed Lawan; he has turned himself to the nationalists now that the election is over; it is now the issue of Senate and anything that will bring disrepute to the Senate he will not be a part of it. You will see him going with Saraki. Former governor of Kebbi State, Aliero - they were the core leaders of the unity forum, but after the elections he said there are no more groups because the leadership has emerged. I have told you with all sincerity, if Saraki is not behaving according to the Constitution, I for one will deviate from him publicly because when I rooted for him, I supported him publicly, everybody knew. I have told him that whenever his personal interest conflicts with those of my people, we will part ways. Let us not belabour the issue of National Assembly, especially the Senate.

Recently, police invited the Deputy Senate President, Ike Ekweremadu, over alleged forgery in the Senate. What is your reaction?

I don't know that. I have read in the papers but I don't think it is true. Senator Ekweremadu has spoken on the issue. He said traditionally at the end of every assembly, the standing rules are adopted for the incoming assembly, except where the members decide to alter it. If you look at the issue of ranking of Senators, it was inserted at the end of the 6th Assembly to prevent people like Saraki himself, Danjuma, and others that were aspiring for the Senate Presidency at that material time. All these sensational reporting are not helping us as a country. The President promised to deal with security, insurgency, corruption and others. Let us concentrate on those issues not issues of Senate leadership. The Constitution states that Senators will have the prerogative of electing one of them as the President or Deputy Senate President, not in a situation that the standing rule states that the leaders of the senate shall be from the ruling party.