During the Governor's chat, a feat no newspaper had achieved in Nigeria, Maigida as he is fondly called, was on the "hot seat" and a reporter's delight. Playful, beaming with smiles and exchanging banters with his guests, Ahmed approached every question frankly, intellectually and dogged none of the posers. His response, straightforward to the point shows he's master of his game. He treasures one thing though: the need to leave a legacy of growth and development in the state at the expiration of his eight years tenure by 2019. "My biggest concern is that we must leave a legacy that should justify why people voted for us," the governor said while responding to a question while the chat lasted. The full interview is presented below:

Your Excellency sir, what have been the challenges your administration is facing regarding the state economy since you took over?

The challenge we are facing is not too different from what the country is also facing in terms of drop in the price of crude oil which has seriously affected revenue accruable to the country and state. As a country and as a state, we have been heavily reliant on federal allocation funds to drive government business. Unfortunately, the drop has reflected in the resources available for us to carry on our normal government business. If there is any challenge today, it cannot be far from the reduced level of funding that we need to execute our budget to the latter.

It seems there is disparity in the newly proposed Internally Generated Revenue (IGR). The state government had proposed N5billion monthly which amounts to N60bn per annum, but the KWIRS gave its figure as N29bn yearly, can you shed more light on this?

There is no disparity. Don't forget that both cases are ambitious projections. We are ambitious because we know we are starting from a level that is well below one billion and we want to within a specific time frame get to about three or five billion as the case maybe. Yes, both figures were captured but it is the time frame that differs. We are expecting to hit billion before the end of the year and we hope to hit five billion before my exit from office. So, we are expected to ultimately grow into N3bn three then N5bn. We have been able to work within the time frame projected even if we know that every other thing cannot be equal. There are exigencies and extraneous factors that will also impact positively or negatively as we move on. We see a projection that will take us to as high as three billion on the premise of what we see by the end of this year and Insha Allah, we should be able to hit five billion before I exit the office in 2019. So there is disparity.

We are on the issue of the Treasury Single Account (TSA); and how has it been able to address financial loopholes?

The TSA is a fantastic one because it is one of the best things that has ever happened to the Nigeria financial system or the public sector. It has enabled us to firstly create some sort of discipline in financial management but most importantly, it has created a platform for which our budgeting will now begin to have the true meaning in terms of accessing and application of revenue as captured in the budgetary system. What is different between the TSA and what we used to run in the past is that the old account system allowed for revenue to come without being captured in the system as inflows and therefore understate our capacity to generate revenue. But the new TSA has instead allowed us to see every fund that enters the state and it now allows us to see our potential to generate revenue and know our actual revenue level. It has also most importantly allows us to see how these revenues are appropriated in different departments and agencies. It doesn’t stop any person from utilising any portion of revenue they generate to the extent that it is firstly recognised as an inflow. It is the government assets that are being used to generate revenue and the revenue must be recognised to see the efficiency of the utilisation of government asset. Then at that level one cannot create expenditure less for them which will also be authorised and expended as such. For me, the TSA has given us a much better platform to see how much the state revenue capacity is and also improve on our levels of expenditure management. That is one of the basic things that the TSA has introduced and we are very happy that this is translating to a better transparent government system.

When is the state approaching Capital Market to obtain the N20billion bond?

Firstly, we must understand that the bond is just a window to source money to fund part of the capital projects we have captured in our 2016 financial budget, which I have just signed into law and we are looking forward to implementing it. The budget as it were is a statement of intention on how to spend money available at a particular time, the bond being part of it. You see, ability to get the bond is also premised on our capacity to improve our repayment capacity and not a strait jacket thing as some people think. They think we just go and take the bond and plunge the state into debt, No. The bond can only be accessed when you are able to demonstrate your capacity to pay back. But that capacity has been weakened by the drop in the federal allocation. Hence, we need to concentrate on growing our IGR to augment for defect that would enable us access the bond. The rate and manner by which the IGR is going, it may not get to that level immediately to make us access N20bn bond and we might end up accessing only N10bn for now. We have gone through the regulatory authorities and we are now at the final level of getting the nod to enable us enter into the market to raise the money. That is why you see the issue of bond as it were, despite its desirability, is not as accessible as many people think, there are certain minimum standards that must be showcased before we can even access it. If the revenue does not demonstrate that it can be paid back after those obligations are met, it will not be honoured. So, whatever bond we collect will be structured along that line. What have been captured for them to fund and repayment for the bond would have been worked into the system before we even start accessing and repayment. So, hopefully and all other things being equal, we are looking at April or early May, we should have finished documentation because all the other issues that require accessing the bond are other factors not within our control but the control of the regulatory authorities and the Federal Ministry of Finance. They dictate the pace now at this stage and not we, and that is why I am giving you a range of time at which I feel things should be normal. At the state, we have our own portion, done our cash flow and worked out our capacity to repay and we are now taking it back to them for review based on their professional review standard and to see how they can enable us go to the market and raise the money and begin to drive our projects. We are also in a hurry because we know we don't have the luxury of time and that is why we are putting everything in place to enable us access the bond to carry out these projects as promised the people during the electioneering campaign.

Tshonga farm and its true ownership has been subject of controversy over the years; does the state government have stake in Tshonga farm?

The farm is one of the first of its kind where a Public Private Partnership (PPP) arrangement will be created and funded through a debt equity structure. The thirteen farms were broken down to three consortiums largely poultry, mix cropping and diary. The farms are partly owned by the white farmers from Zimbabwe, the state government through its contribution insight and services and the banks that provided the debt and equity. For us as a state, what we capitalise as part of our own ownership is what we usually give to investors that come to the state like land, roads and support with electricity. In some cases we capitalise it and at times we just allow it to go so that we can encourage prospective investors. In this case we capitalised it. For the three consortiums, the poultry business is very successful largely because it has a major market in Nigeria and growing chicken in Tshonga will naturally fit into the chicken market. As it is today, they are poised to position themselves to be the biggest poultry market in Nigeria. They are already setting up hatcheries that will produce about half a million of a day old chicken weekly and also in the process of churning out up to a million dressed chicken in probably six weeks. Incidentally, they have been able to pay up their debt and a South African company has bought forty per cent of their business. That is what is giving them the current impetus for expansion. The diary product has a lot of challenges, firstly because they are producing fresh milk and the country is not a fresh milk consuming nation. Hence it became a little bit herculean to manage the disposal of the fresh milk. Luckily, we got a kind of support from the Federal Government to on a policy basis get diary companies who hitherto were importing powdered milk to reconstitute to either impute for yoghurt or peak milk and integrate by sourcing fresh milk to add to the powered milk, which automatically created a market for the diary. That is when the section began growing. Today, they are doing very well. Some of them that had initial teething problems have been bought over by the successful ones. So they are currently doing a fantastic diary business and also diversifying. The mixed croppers could not access irrigation equipment because they are very expensive. For instance, a thousand hectares of land requires about 1.8m dollars to provide irrigation equipment. And relying on the rain fed agriculture is not enough to pay back that kind of debt. That is why their portion of the loan and business were taken over by AMCON. Prospective investors have been going to AMCON, unbundling the company and investing. In a nut shell, Tshonga axis under the Tshonga Farm Holdings business is a success story and the purpose, way and manner for which it was set up has been achieved. This is to encourage commercial farming, designed to run under a public private partnership system which is also on-going and thirdly, it is to enable others to see best practices and benchmark against them. That is why people have been going in there to either take over some of the farms or partnering to drive other businesses in addition to growing out growers around that axis who will also cue in and create pockets of growing farms across the state but largely within that circumference, so that the processing units will not be far away and thereby benefits a lots of unemployed youths with outgrowing schemes there. It will grow the economy of the state and encourage our youths to go into poultry farming which has a well-structured chain already. With the inputs through the renewed day old chicken farming schemes, feeds and up-taking is a fantastic arrangement to generate new generation of poultry farmers in Kwara State. You can now see the benefit of bringing farmers to come and demonstrate commercial farming in poultry business, which will translate in job and wealth creation for our youths under the outgrowing schemes that may start God willing in the next 60 or 90 days. But is there a possibility of exporting these products?

Ultimately, by the time we grow to about two million birds, we grow beyond our local market and we now begin to look at the West Africa sub region and Africa as a region before talking of the Middle East and other areas. But we are coming in from a country that currently imports chicken and it will take up a little while to get to that export level. If we still import, it means the potential consumption is still very high and once we meet that, then it becomes reasonable for us to export.

What about the payment of the loans they took, have they been paid?

The ones that are currently working have paid and the ones that have not paid, were taken by AMCON which is the Asset Management Companies that took over all unpaid loans including those of the farmers. They are just being bought over by those who are buying the debt owed AMCON.

Ahead 2019, there is this rumoured cold war between you and Senator Rafiu Ibrahim over senatorial ticket; are you contesting for Senate in 2019?

That issue is just the imagination of a few political jobbers who want to create news to keep them busy. You see, we know that we all have come from a political structure where we all sit down and look at what is best for the system. We have a very strong leadership that is playing an inclusive process in getting people to do responsibilities that will service and help the system. And we have never got to where we are through struggles, fighting, backbiting and what have you. All we see ourselves do is coming in to work for the system for the benefit of everybody. So, infighting on what if I may ask? I am not even up to a year in my second term and don’t even know how this is going to end up, first, which is my biggest concern because we must leave a legacy that should justify why people voted for us. That is very important to me more than anything else. How can I sit here and begin to wallow in the politics of four years now, it doesn’t portray one as a serious person instead of being concerned about how well I am going to leave this four years, the resources that are going to be available to me and to improve on them, how to complete projects that I have so much talked about. So, it is just a figment of people's imagination, it does not and it will not exist. That is the truth.

What is really going on between the executive and legislature?

People try to create news when they don’t see activities happening. You would have heard so many stories about one person fighting the other and vice versa. It is a mix creation for people who actually want to begin to benefit because they lack positive ways of contributing to the current political structure. Otherwise we have a vibrant house, ably led by Dr Ali Ahmad who has had a national experience and has worked in the executive very well. I have had a fantastic relationship with him before in the system. Who is in the house that I am not familiar with? We all got there largely as forces from the same system, so why should we go there to fight when our common interest is Kwara State? We didn’t get here to seek for our personal gains but how to drag the state to an enviable level. Prepare your mind for more of such stories but I am telling you ahead that they will not be true stories. What is more important here is that we all, irrespective of the positions we occupy, have our assignments to drive the state to enviable levels. I think these are the most important issues we should begin to look at. Such stories are the idea of political jobbers and a reflection of their lack of ideas on how to contribute positively to any system. If they have something positive to contribute, let them come forward with it, we will all make money out of it. You see all sorts of things jumping in the social media; they are all part of the same game. But for us we are focused and defined by our goals we want to achieve based on the promises we made. We will not allow ourselves to digress from this to really impact positively on governance which we are very much determined to do.

Salary arrears have been a major issue across the state, what are the steps taken to address it?

First, we are all aware that there is a drop in salaries as a result of the drop in our federal allocation, which we have heavily relied on for the payment of our salaries across the federal, state and local government levels. We foresaw this which started in late 2013 until we entered it in 2014 and it affected us significantly in 2015. For any sensible system of governance, first thing to do is to look at how to improve on our revenue to levels where we can control when there is huge challenge like this. We can only control our Internally Generated Revenue unlike the allocation which is not reliable now. That is what has led us to changing the revenue system through a tripod, people, process, technology change that will take us to the promised land on revenue by God's grace. Though there are challenges and there are natural saboteurs in any change process but we will get there because we don’t have any other option. Having changed the revenue process, we then captured areas that have hitherto been left out in the tax realm and drive them to increase the revenue. Second, is the expenditure leg which involve the capital and recurrent and unfortunately, we can only do the capital when we have surplus in recurrent. The major cost in recurrent are overhead and personnel. We have been able to cut our overhead cost to almost forty per cent and a lot of wastages we have in the past have been corrected through the process of zero budgeting system which allows us to review our recurrent expenditure in all MDAs which have significantly cut off areas of perceived wastages and allocated resources to areas of deficit. The other area that requires to be checked is personnel which is currently being done and I am very happy to let you know that the best thing that has ever happened to the country’s financial system is the introduction of the BVN, which allows for proper documentation of financial transactions. As it is, we have been able to take the state's payroll and juggled it with the BVN and the results we are getting are mindboggling. We have seen a situation where a single BVN is collecting remuneration on about five different areas under different names. The only way that one can hide under the BVN is when they collect money across the counter but as long as it is within the banking system, there is no hiding place. So, all those who have been involved in collecting two salaries have been exposed and we are currently analysing them into departments, ministries and agencies. Those who have improper BVN will be rectified, those who presumably have correct BVN will continue as such. But everybody will be required to still fill a form for proper data capturing for us to have an electronically driven data system for the state and local governments. So, it will be very clear and everybody will know the exact number of people working for government. That is how transparent we should be in Kwara. The BVN is a whole package and not meant to only help us check financial fraud but also give us a proper data base for all staff that work under the state or local government. Currently, analysis is on-going and we are shifting those with improper BVN to be isolated, those yet to have it have been isolated, those whose BVN have been attached to about five salaries have been isolated for interrogation and further action and those with correct BVN will continue to receive salaries. But what is clear now is that without BVN, it's no longer possible to collect salaries in Kwara State. Workers have between now and the next salary to go for their BVN if they have not. Nobody is going to be paid across the counter or by cash but to an account that have a specific BVN. Now, we are going to check, how it is possible for multiple names to enter into one BVN. Was it through connivance or something else, we will find out and everything will be revealed for us to guard against such abuse going forward and correct it in future. Everything in this electronic age can be traced to specifics and adequate solution proffered. Hopefully, we have a robust properly designed data base for workers of Kwara State. Hence, we can manage entry and exit, promotions and annual growth, we can migrate the contributory pension because we now have specific numbers and those we cannot migrate can be catered for until their time is up. So at that level, with the little that is on ground in Kwara that has further dropped, everybody will get paid and we will be able to manage all these things that I have said. With the way monies are distributed now, people will keep yearning that money is not enough. Those who have made it difficult for us to get it done in Kwara will naturally be brought to book. You cannot be a clog in the wheel of our progress when you know the challenges we are faced with and go scot free after we have discovered. Somebody has to be brought to book for doing the wrong thing to serve as a deterrent to others. We have to be clear about this for it not to be repeated again. We now have a robust system where the issue of non-payment of salaries and pension arrears will now be a thing of the past. With the current level of revenue we have and with the figures I am seeing, we will be very comfortable at the state and should be at the local government. There is no reason local government staffers should be owed. It will reveal some of the anomalies in the past and show why they have not been able to pay salaries despite that people were instigated to go and throw stones at the prayer ground, we will see those who are responsible and the whole world would know because we will make it public. We are now in a transparent government.

How much do you think the state will be saving from this exercise?

We are still analysing the raw report we got. There are people whose name will appear in two salaries for different reasons; we have to find out before we begin to apply punitive measures. There is no more hiding place as most of these things have been revealed, the honeymoon is over. We will now begin to see some sanity in the system and we will now calculate how much has been lost as a result of this anomaly which will be made public. People must know those who have perpetrated it otherwise they may think I am lying.

Will the perpetrators be made to turn in the loot?

That is another kettle of fish. But we must first correct the system. The measures that will be taken thereafter will be defined by exigencies.

Your Excellency, some people have been clamouring for the scrapping of JAAC, what is your response to that?

JAAC is the Joint Account Allocation Committee and it is a constitutional matter. So, why should I be asked to scrap it since it’s a constitutional thing? It is a constitutional creation which is joint among the local government and not with the state. If something of such is to be scrapped, it should come from the National Assembly and not the state. It is designed purely to allow the local government distribute the allocated funds that come to them. It is going to be guided in such a way that it will be guided under the laws that are prescribed by the state House of Assembly. For instance, primary school teachers, local government service commission, traditional rulers; when those three are taken out as source, the rest are distributed. That is what the law guiding the distribution of JAAC says. There is nowhere anybody else is benefitting from the distribution of that money. The law is very clear.

But based on current realities, do you think the law needs review?

I don't see why it should be reviewed because I have not seen anything wrong with the system. Something must have been noticed to have been wrong to warrant a review. I mean they are able to cater for the teachers at basic education, which is very critical as far as our education system is concerned; it gives guarantee to regular payment of salaries and of course, the commission maintains its staff, the traditional rulers are at the grassroots, who those at the local government are in touch with on daily basis much more than most of us at the state and the federal government levels. So which is not relevant here and once they are jointly catered for, they distribute according to the ratio encapsulated in the constitution. There is no problem with the law. It is because we have the challenge of reduction in the amount of money distributable. And if there is a defect in that, the solution is not the JAAC law, but for us to improve in revenue drive which we have put in place now. The new internal generating system of the state will take care of all those untapped areas at the state and local government levels. What will be accruable on revenue to the local government will be much better but we can't begin to see the result now immediately. It takes a little time for the result to begin to manifest.

Sir, where are we on the reticulation project in the state?

That project was a huge project costing about N8billion and there is no way one administration can plan such project with a revenue base of about N2 or N3 billion out of which 70 per cent goes into payment of salaries and wages aside other recurrent expenditure commitment. One might not be able to fund an eight billion naira project within a small time frame especially when it is not the only project to be done by the government. Don’t forget the initiator of the project was responsible for the overhead bridge at Post Office, renovation of the stadium, KWASU among others. So, if we had faced only the eight billion project; those other ones will not come to be. This kind of huge project is usually modulated in terms of payment. During the time of my predecessor and our leader, Senator Bukola Saraki, he was able to do the project up to about five billion. I then invested a billion when I came in because we had to fund other projects and we also completed lots of ongoing projects. We would have finished it if the way we were getting funding in 2011 had continued. The slowness in the completion of the project is not unconnected with the huge drop in the revenue to the state, knowing fully well that the sectors sharing the revenue have not reduced. But notwithstanding, we have created windows like the bond, some internally supported arrangement, part of the excess crude account loan, among others where we hope to juggle some money to complete the water reticulation project. Already the contractor has resumed work now and hopefully we will take the job to completion. That will make water available to a large chunk of people in the municipality. However, we are currently augmenting water supply through the tanker supply scheme, which is the second leg. The third leg is working on expanding some water works across the state in other locations outside the state capital. Of course, we are continuously sinking bore holes. I am just about to give approval to repair about five of our rigs, which will bring down the cost of drilling bore holes in different locations and make it available in a lot of our rural areas where we will improve on water supply. Water supply is a continuous thing and we cannot say we are through with it at any particular point in time. By the time we complete the reticulation project, you may find out it could be small again because of the continuous influx of people to the state just like the issue of transformers. So, we will continue to struggle as a government to make financial provision to take water supply in the state to a level where we will access more people in water distribution.

The Geri- Alimi fly-over project the government said it planned to decongest the traffic in the axis has also attracted lots of criticisms, how do you react to that?

Firstly as a government, when we have programme that does not attract criticisms, we should feel uncomfortable because there are always different opinions to issues. But, how constructive are they? It is when we empathise with the different opinions that we are able to come out with a way forward and find a midway that will carry the majority’s interest into driving the specific goal.

The main aim for that laudable project is that Ilorin is growing at an exponential rate. That place is a major entry point from the southern/western part of the country. We are all aware that very soon, the federal government will complete the Ilorin/Oyo/Ibadan Express link road and also complete the Lagos Expressway. We have to be futuristic because there will be a lot more pressure on that junction once these roads are completed. People who hitherto have been going through other axis will now begin to make use of the road and if they need to come through Ilorin, there will be a lot of pressure. As it is today, the town has expanded well enough to put an overhead bridge there. Also, you need to see what happens there during the rush hours in the mornings and evenings. Getting a bridge there is one of the best things that can ever happen to the state. Then when we do that, we would be able to improve the traffic and increase the productivity of the people… If we are not proactive now, the level we need to put it there in the future would be higher in terms of cost and compensation going by the level of expansion of settlement around that axis. It is just about strategic planning to improve people’s lives. So, yes we welcome the criticisms but the benefit of putting an overhead bridge there overwhelms the opportunity proffered by those who criticise.

The Federal Government has said that it will reimburse states that have constructed or rehabilitated federal roads, what is the amount Kwara State is expecting from FG?

We have made our submissions, which runs to about N3billion and the Federal government has signified intention to pay and I am sure they are being worked out because it was allowed to linger for too long so it has accumulated. If the last federal administration has been paying gradually, we would not have the pressure from the Federal Government in the face of a dropped revenue allocation. So, I think they will work it out and ensure how to bring in proper funding models that suits the structure of the federal government.

Your Excellency, some citizens say the KWABES story is no more palatable, how true is that?

KWABES as it were was supposed to be a bridge to midwife one from unemployment to employment. The programme was not designed for people to be there permanently but unfortunately, we have been challenged by paucity of funds which has made it almost difficult to continue to pay regular salaries. However, we have been able to see how to create a window through the small and medium enterprise schemes and we have been funding to support entrepreneurs. So yes, in a way, we have not been able to maintain the payment for the obvious reason of funds but have been able to sustain access to micro credit on a regenerative process basis to grow the money available for SMEs, which is more sustainable to drive our youth to become entrepreneurs. This is a more sustainable way to help drive individual economy and collectively that of the state.

A bill had been passed by the Kwara Assembly on renaming of KWASU into Abubakar Sola Saraki's University, what is delaying the implementation?

The issue is still being worked on. The process of renaming has not changed. We need to know that it also comes with a cost as most of its documents and papers need to be changed and gradually phased out. But we are perfectly on course.

Judicial Panel set up on Share/Tsaragi clash has just submitted its reports, what are some of the recommendations of the commission? Also, do you intend to publish the report?

When you set up a judicial committee of enquiry, it has a process which involves administrative and others. We have set up a committee that will do a white paper, which is like an executive summary. Then the white paper will be adopted. When it gets to the state executive council, that is when it becomes implementable. The Secretary to the State Government is still doing the recommendation and we have approved to let the committee do a white paper, which will now prepare the paper that will come to the council that will deliberate on it and implement whatever is recommended. Don’t forget we also have a reconciliation committee to be headed by the Emir of Ilorin, which we are going to set up. He will be supported by other notable people like the traditional rulers, civil administrators among others who will come and lend their experience carrying out certain areas of differences, not only in this Share/Tsaragi community but see how it applies to other similar problems where we have communal differences. We will ensure that our efforts stand the test of time this time around because it will not only find permanent solution to the issue but also heal wounds. We have been doing it in the past but it has largely been on paper. Now, we want to see how we will get a body led by an eminent person, especially somebody in the calibre of the Emir of Ilorin, who is not only the chairman, council of chiefs but the custodian of the land in question. So it serves as the right platform to head a committee that will begin to see implementation, rehabilitation and reconciliation of such issues that we have on ground. We want to see how to apply this to bring permanent solutions to the problem on ground and the way and manner it will apply to potential communities that have this kind of problems. That is what we expect to do.