Senator Suleiman Makanjuola Ajadi is a grassroots politician and journalist’s delight. He has served his state of origin, Kwara, in various capacities and at different times. He was Commissioner for Finance and a former governorship candidate of the defunct Action Congress (AC) in 2007. He is presently a chieftain of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP). The Special Adviser to the President on National Assembly Matters, in this interview with BISI ADEDAYO, bares his mind on both local and national politics as well as on sundry issues.  Excerpts:

How do you react to the recent gubernatorial polls in Ekiti State won by the PDP? What does this portend for 2015 general elections?

The election makes me extremely happy. I am one of the PDP leaders in this state. I am one of the beneficiaries of the PDP government. Therefore, anything that will increase its spread is what I am praying for. So, I am more than happy. I thank God for my party. It means my party is going to win with overwhelming majority even more than before. By my calculation, my party has 18 governors out of 36 and there are two other states that may not be PDP presently but are PDP oriented, to wit: Ondo and Anambra States. If you add these, that is 20 states. If you add Ekiti, it becomes 21 and if you add Adamawa State, that makes it 22 states. So, we have no problem come 2015. If we have 22 out 36 states, we would be leaving 14 for the opposition. Meanwhile, we are going to take out of that 14, including Kwara State in 2015. So, there is no way any party other that PDP can be dreaming of wining the presidential polls

What is your take on the recent court ruling regarding the defection of former PDP members?

If the ruling comes through that way, it is going to be one of the best thing that has ever happened in Nigerian democracy because if people are just behaving as if they are the lords of the manor and, with impunity, they can do anything, whatever they like, whether the constitutional or not, the court should be the arbiter by interpreting the constitution of the country. The constitution is clear anyway. It says you cannot leave the party that sponsored your election to the seat you occupy for another except there is division within the party that sponsored you. The court had earlier ruled that there was no division in PDP. Have you forgotten when nPDP was formed? The court said there was no division in PDP. It was clear that there was a national convention of the PDP. Their walking out of the convention did not truncate the convention because the convention went ahead. They didn’t even have locus standi to talk because most of them were not even delegates in that convention. So, the court said there was no division and that they should stop parading themselves using the name of PDP for anything. That is the court’s order. It was after this that five governors defected to APC. If the court says they should vacate their seats.

The delegates at National Conference have advocated a part-time legislature. Do you subscribe to this?

I don’t know since I am not a member of that body. But what I know is that whatever they say is not law. It is what Nigerians want that will eventually prevail. If Nigerians want it that way, it will come to be. If they don’t want it that way, it will never see the light of the day. Whatever they say at the place, at the end of the day, I think they have about few weeks left, whatever they say, there are two options. If there is enough time, they can take referendum for Nigerians to consider it clause by clause and say yes or no. Or, they can take it to the National Assembly. In my view, taking it to the National Assembly may be the right thing and it may be what is going to happen because even if there is going to be referendum, there must be a law backing it. Who will make that law? It is the same National Assembly. They will sit on it. They may say they want and they may decide otherwise.

But whichever recommendation made by the confab, do you think it can take effect between now and the next general elections? How do you react to the call for removal of immunity clause from the constitution?

I have no objection for removing immunity clause from public officers in all respects especially for corruption cases and even criminal cases. You go and commit crime, why should you enjoy immunity against the crime you committed? I am not against removal of immunity but I don’t have power to approve or disapprove it. I know either the National Assembly or Nigerian people will decide whatever they want through a referendum.

How prepared is the Kwara PDP for 2015 election?

We are well prepared in PDP and we are going to win Kwara State overwhelmingly, not even with small margin. We are going to win all the elections in Kwara, beginning with the House of Assembly election, the National Assembly, governorship and the presidential elections with overwhelming majority. I have told many people who cared to listen before. They would say some people have structure. What do you mean by structure? Structure is human beings. We were the structure of Late Olusola Saraki that made him to win elections. I have won election with Baba Saraki and I have also won election without him. I have worked with Bukola Saraki increasing the potency of whatever he called his structure and I have left and when I left I carried all my people away from the place. As far as I am concerned, the place is empty. The place doesn’t have any Ajadi’s factor again. And, not only Ajadi, the place doesn’t have Oba Abduraheem’s factor, it does not have any Oba Ajara’s factor and it does not have any Ndakene’s factor. You may ask me why I mentioned those four people. Those people were the ones who managed the 2011 election in Kwara State. We were the people that managed the campaign. Prof. Oba was the Director-General, Ajadi, Ajara and Ndakene were Deputy Directors-General. All of us are still in PDP, we didn’t leave. So, what magic would anybody use now to say we are suddenly no more crowd pullers? If we are not crowd pullers, why did they make us Director-General and Deputy Directors-General? Was it for fun that they made the four of us the leaders of the campaign that delivered Kwara for PDP? Were they dreaming that time? Would you now believe that between 2011 and now we have turned empty people? We are not empty and we can never be empty. In 2015, APC will meet what they call waterloo in Kwara State.

But the incumbent governor is from your immediate constituency. So, why is it that you refused to queue behind Governor Ahmed?

He did not perform. There is no achievement, pure and simple. How can I be satisfied with a governor that has no achievement? Can you tell me a project initiated or executed by this government? They said it is a government of continuity and that it carries on with on-going projects of the previous administration. So, the governor is supposed not to do anything in his state, just to decorate what somebody else has done? That is absurdity of the highest order. Go to the man tomorrow, he will take you to the Diagnostic Centre that Bukola built, Cargo Terminal and General Hospitals that somebody built but only repainted.

The roads that somebody else did which he put stripes and call these projects. Are they projects that we elected the governor for? In my village and surrounding villages, we voted for Ahmed 100 per cent. Let anybody tell us one single project, even a culvert in these villages they could claim they did. In the area, there is a river called Osin, the government said they wanted to build bridge from Babanloma across the river leading to Moro. They carried ring there and put sand but the whole thing was washed away by the first rain. That is the achievement of the government I worked for. So, do I continue with that situation? The man did nothing for Kwara State so far. If paying workers’ salaries is achievement, Kwarans will answer them at the right time.

The State government has gone to the capital market to raise N23 billion bonds for infrastructural development. How do you react to this?

How can you plan to access N23 billion bonds when election is a few months away? Even an empty shell would know that you want to spend that money on election.

Those ones they have taken before, I am aware before Bukola left they took N17 billion bond and when Ahmed came, he also took N10 billion. Let them show us what they spent this money on. N10 billion is not a small amount of money. Governor Ahmed took N10 billion about a year and a half ago, where is that N10 billion? What did he do with it? Why should they take another N23 billion now? What do they want to do with it? They will now take it to Dubai and South Africa and keep them and take paltry sum of it to come and rubbish us again and say they have money to do election.

From where did they get that money? It is always funny when they say we have money. Where is their factory where they produce and make money? It is Kwara money. Local Governments’ funds that are what they used. They want to have N23 billion bonds now to mortgage our future, God will not allow it.

But government said it will spend part of it to service the existing loan of N7.5 billion. So, what is your take on that?

Do you believe that? Somebody will say he is taking N23 billion bonds and out of it use N7.5 billion to service loan that you don’t know what they used it to do. That N7.5 billion, where is the project for which it was expended?

The money was also reportedly spent on Ilorin water reticulation and… (cuts in)

Is there any water in your area of Ilorin? I used borehole in my house. Where is that reticulation going on? How many years does it take to reticulate water? Does it take years? What do they call reticulation? Is it not to bury pipes from one angle to another and allow water to flow? How long does it take to do that? If you carry a trailer load of Hausa workers now and you ask them to dig from here to Maraba now, they will do it between one and two days and you bury your pipes and water flows. That is reticulation. How should their oreticulation take years to be done? That is just a smart way of saying the money is reticulated to Dubai and South Africa through their own pipes.

The practice in the past in the state is proliferation of governorship aspirants. Do you foresee the same scenario in next general election, especially from Kwara South?

It won’t happen this time around. A situation where 20 or 30 people will come out to spire to be governor will not happen. The quest of Kwara south that they want to be governor now is very simple. It is just a commonsensical and logical thing to ask for. The Kwara southerner has been in the saddle for four years. Is it not commonsensical for the Kwara south to do its own second term? Nobody knows when it is going to be the turn of Kwara south again after this one.

So, the issue is that Kwara south should do its own second term after which it can go elsewhere by way of rotation from one place to another. In fact, this is happening in Nigeria as a whole as this is why some of us aligned strongly with the South-South that President Jonathan should contest and win the 2015 election.

Why would you say Jonathan should not do second term, for what reason? When Shagari was President, did he not contest for second term and won? When Obasanjo was there, did he not contested and won? If Yar’Adua were to be alive, will he not contest for second term? Why would you say Jonathan should not do second term? Is it because he comes from South South? Well, you hear the South South people clearly that Mr. President, don’t come back home, you must be there and do the second term.

That is to Jonathan himself. And, to you people, other Nigerians, they say if you don’t allow him, there will be no Nigeria again. So, why would you say Kwara South should not have its own second term? Kwara South are calling on their children saying go there and fight for it and bring it back, otherwise you will not come back to Kwara South. They are telling other people in Kwara State to vote for somebody in Kwara South.